Pay It Forward - Transcript from Collaborative Community Planning Workshop on Sept 21, 2012
Unabridged Transcript from the Nonprofit Commons in Second Life 5th Anniversary Celebration Active Collaborative Community Planning Workshop we had on September 21, 2012 to create solutions for all our unify goals for the Virtual Vision 2020 - an initiative to develop a plan for the Second Life community.
[20:31] Zinnia Zauber: Welcome!
[20:31] JenzZa Misfit: in RL we would say : you cant all talk at once
..but in SL .. yes we can
[20:31] JenzZa Misfit: :)
[20:31] JenzZa Misfit: and it works
[20:31] Sister Abeyante yawns and consults her time zone map to wonder
where in the world it is not in the middle of the night...
[20:31] Zinnia Zauber: Please have a seat on a cupcake.
[20:31] Zinnia Zauber: Yes, we tried to hit all timezones with events.
[20:31] Orange Planer: Middle-east and further east, Sister.
[20:31] Brena Benoir: While the world sleeps, we plan the takeover lol
[20:32] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): lol :)
[20:32] Brena Benoir: Hello Aunty
[20:32] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Evening Everyone.
[20:32] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): waves
[20:32] Pamala Clift: Greetings all
[20:32] JenzZa Misfit: ( Ive done that ... set clock / get up / for
something awesome online at 3 am / )
[20:32] Mrs. G.G. Mauer (aunty.lockjaw): Hello Brena
[20:33] Zinnia Zauber: Welcome everyone!
[20:33] Zinnia Zauber: I want to give everyone some time to arrive.
[20:33] Zinnia Zauber: Please invite your friends and groups to join us!
[20:34] Zinnia Zauber: Welcome to the Nonprofit Commons in Second Life
5th Anniversary Celebration
[20:34] Zinnia Zauber: The Nonprofit Commons in Second Life is a
community of social benefit organizations managed by a community of
volunteers and sponsored by the nonprofit organization TechSoup
[20:34] Zinnia Zauber: We have had several events today!
[20:35] Zinnia Zauber: I am thrilled that we have this workshop to end
the celebration on.
[20:35] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you all for joining us.
[20:35] Zinnia Zauber: This is our Workshop Agenda
8:30 PM Introductions
8:40 PM Explanation of Community Planning and Virtual Vision 2020 purpose
8:50 PM Breakout groups discussion of goals and identification of who
might help achieve goal
9:20 PM Presentation of breakout group solutions and strategies
9:40 PM Build partnerships to lead by example
[20:36] Zinnia Zauber: Please come on down and have a seat on a cupcake!
[20:36] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you for coming! This workshop is in chat.
[20:36] Zinnia Zauber: We hope to share this transcript.
[20:37] Zinnia Zauber: So, I am warning you! I am taking names!
[20:37] Zinnia Zauber: ;)
[20:37] Orange Planer: My number is....
[20:37] Zinnia Zauber: I would like to introduce myself, I am Zinnia Zauber
[20:38] Zinnia Zauber: I am the chair of the Nonprofit Commons' Mentors.
[20:38] Zinnia Zauber: I will be our MC tonight
[20:38] Zinnia Zauber: or you can call me Julie, your cruise director.
[20:38] Pamala Clift: lol
[20:39] Orange Planer: Oh man are you dating yourself or what.
[20:39] Zinnia Zauber: We have Pam Broviak as our lead for the workshop.
[20:39] Zinnia Zauber: yeah, I am.
[20:39] Zinnia Zauber: We like to start our sessions with introductions.
[20:39] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Hello everyone - and thanks to NPC
for hosting this workshop
[20:40] CarmenLittleFawn: Hi :-)
[20:40] Zinnia Zauber: I encourage you to share who you are in RL if
you like, what orgs or groups you are with, and remember
[20:40] Zinnia Zauber: Smiles everyone, smiles!
[20:40] JenzZa Misfit: hi ! I am *filtered*
[20:40] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): da plane da plane
[20:41] Brena Benoir: Brenda Bryan, Preferred Family Healthcare, NPC member
[20:41] CarmenLittleFawn: giggles, Hi I am Lorna Hawkins, with Drive
By Agony/Keeping Kids Safe out of Los Angeles California
[20:41] Sister Abeyante: Sister Patrice Colletti, SDS Milwaukee, WI
*** @SisterAbeyante http://4equalrights.blogspot.com/ ***
@TechTips4Usds http://techtipssds.blogspot.com/ *** as well as a
volunteer with Virtual Ability, Inc. http://www.virtualability.org
[20:41] Zinnia Zauber: Renne Emiko Brock-Richmond, Sequim Humanities
and Arts Alliance, Sequim, Olympic Peninsula, Washington.
http://www.facebook.com/sequimartsalliance @renneemiko I teach with
Peninsula College and chair the University of Washington's Virtual
World Alumni org.
[20:41] Gentle Heron: Virtual Ability, Inc. www.virtualability.org
[20:41] Ozma Malibu: Sandy Andrews, Floaters Org, currently in AZ and NPC member
[20:41] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): Ricky, DJ DyVerse hiv/aids and
health advocate and blogger
[20:41] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): and milk drinker
[20:41] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): lol
[20:42] Zinnia Zauber: lol
[20:42] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Pam Broviak - an engineer working in
local government in Illinois and facilitator for the Virtual Vision
2020 community plan
[20:42] Dancers Yao: Kara Bennett in Los Angeles, Elder Voices, Inc.
works with human rights and health care
[20:42] Namaara MacMoragh: Gloria Kraegel, nonprofit consultant
(http://greatkreations.com), owner of Etopia Community sims
(http://etopiaisland.org), and working with BEST
(http://brainenergysupportteam.org) in Tacoma WA.
[20:42] Pamala Clift: Pamala Clift- The Roadside Philosopher, author
of Virgin's Handbook on Virtual Relationships
and CEO of Virtual Handhold, LLChttp://www.virtualhandhold.com/
[20:42] Zinnia Zauber: Please take a moment to introduce yourself if
you are just joining us.
[20:43] Zinnia Zauber: Great to see so many people from the wonderful
state of Washington!
[20:43] Zinnia Zauber: Just bragging, sorry.
[20:43] fate Paule: Penny Condoll, ED of the Brain Energy Support
Team, BEST, an advocate for individuals with a brain injury,
www.brainenergysupportteam.org our focus is peer-peer support and
[20:43] Zinnia Zauber: :)
[20:43] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Gramma Fiddlesticks, long time SL'er who
teaches SL skills for several SL school/help groups as well as work
with CF University group in support of their non-profit activities
here in SL.
[20:43] fate Paule: :) i agree zinnia
[20:44] Zinnia Zauber: Yay fate!
[20:44] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you all for introducing yourself!
[20:44] Zinnia Zauber: This is a wonderful way we find connections and
make new friends!
[20:44] Zinnia Zauber: Have you been reading each other's profiles?
[20:44] Gramma Fiddlesticks: of course!
[20:45] Zinnia Zauber: Awesome!
[20:45] CarmenLittleFawn: not yet, but I will :-)
[20:45] Zinnia Zauber: I think our Profiles are a way we share what
communities we belong to in SL.
[20:45] Zinnia Zauber: What do those communities actually say about us?
[20:46] Zinnia Zauber: Let me remind you of our agenda again.
[20:46] Orange Planer: Are you asking for feedback?
[20:46] Zinnia Zauber: We got through the first part!
[20:46] Zinnia Zauber: Orange you will find I ask questions for engagement.
[20:47] Zinnia Zauber: So you are welcome to respond.
[20:47] Brena Benoir: I think that depends on the person and their
reason for being here in SL
[20:47] Orange Planer sets up a pair of speakers next to Zinnia's microphone.
[20:47] Zinnia Zauber: And, I take dark chocolate offerings.
[20:47] Gentle Heron: Zinnia, are they rhetorical or can we respond
[20:47] Zinnia Zauber: They are both.
[20:47] Zinnia Zauber: So I am totally fine with you answering them
[20:47] Zinnia Zauber: Because I know that I am not being interrupted.
[20:48] Zinnia Zauber: I want those answers!
[20:48] Zinnia Zauber: hehe
[20:48] Zinnia Zauber: Welcome Dude!
[20:48] Zinnia Zauber: Thanks for joining us
[20:48] Gentle Heron: I find it's useful to look at others' profiles
and group lists in SL. That often tells me more on first meeting a
person here than I could learn by first meeting them in RL.
[20:48] JenzZa Misfit: back , sorry .. I'm JenzZa .. alot of you know
me from the production team for Metanomics in SL , the rest is
complicated but interesting ...so here's my number, call me maybe ! *
Jenny Jenny ..8 6 7 5 3 .. 0 .. 9 *
[20:49] JenzZa Misfit: re: see profile
[20:49] PowerchairDude: hello
[20:49] Zinnia Zauber: Yes, great answer Gentle!
[20:49] Zinnia Zauber: 9 e 9 nine
[20:49] JenzZa Misfit: lol
[20:49] Sister Abeyante: I agree- our groups are a peek into us- our
interests and priorities.
[20:49] JenzZa Misfit: I already love you Zinnia !
[20:49] Sister Abeyante scans her groups and starts hiding some....
[20:49] Zinnia Zauber: So, with reading those profiles we make discoveries
[20:49] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[20:50] Orange Planer: OMG!
[20:50] Zinnia Zauber: Do you make friend requests because of what you discover?
[20:50] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): has no groups so I represent my
dementia very well lol
[20:50] CarmenLittleFawn: mmmhmmm
[20:50] Orange Planer: I just discovered all my friends are....
[20:50] Orange Planer: VOLUNTEERS!
[20:50] Zinnia Zauber: lol
[20:50] Gentle Heron smiles at Orange's discovery
[20:50] Gentle Heron: That also says something about you, who your friends are.
[20:50] Zinnia Zauber: ha DyVerse
[20:50] PowerchairDude: lol
[20:51] Zinnia Zauber: right
[20:51] Zinnia Zauber: Why do we make friends in Second Life?
[20:51] Zinnia Zauber: Do we want to find a community that we can belong to?
[20:51] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): so I can make them listen to me play music
[20:51] Zinnia Zauber: yes! That is true!
[20:51] JenzZa Misfit: .. I am actually suspicious of any group that
would actually have me .. as a member *scribbling notes*
[20:51] Namaara MacMoragh: like-minded firends, professional collaborations,
[20:51] Orange Planer: They're patient with me when I forget who they are.
[20:51] Zinnia Zauber: wonderful!
[20:52] Gramma Fiddlesticks: some of us make friends here because our
rl contacts are limited.
[20:52] Zinnia Zauber: Ah, very good Gramma!
[20:52] Zinnia Zauber: That is the power of virtual worlds, right?
[20:52] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): because we share similar paths and stories
[20:52] Zinnia Zauber: Yes yes
[20:52] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Exactly Zinnia
[20:53] Zinnia Zauber: this is great!
[20:53] Namaara MacMoragh: I agree with Gramma... for myself I really
don't get out much and this has been a great way to meet people I like
without the barriers often presented in RL.
[20:53] Dancers Yao: I enjoy meeting people from different cultures...
[20:53] Zinnia Zauber: yes!
[20:53] Brena Benoir: Maybe we see something in a profile that sparks
[20:53] Zinnia Zauber: How many of us have met our SL friends in RL?
[20:53] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I have met some. =)
[20:53] Sister Abeyante: Sometimes, friending is about building
community, but more often, it's about connecting..then after
coonecting, getting to know someone...then after connecting, and
getting to know the person, THEN a sense of communty.
[20:53] Brena Benoir: I have
[20:53] Namaara MacMoragh: I've met a couple of them. Not as many as
[20:53] Dancers Yao: a few
[20:53] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): ummmm i have meet them virtualy
without their avatar
[20:53] Zinnia Zauber: I have.
[20:53] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): lol
[20:53] JenzZa Misfit: I am and have been in SL since 06 .. actually
as my RL work and the friends collection is a happy accident and
awesome by-product !
[20:54] PowerchairDude: excure me do you have a problem with your
avatar Pam or is that your avatar, I have had a problem with my avatar
and have figured out how to fix it.
[20:54] PowerchairDude: excure*
[20:54] Brena Benoir: not sure we can even think about competing with
him on that one Namaara
[20:54] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): am i smoke? it looks find to me
PowerchairDude - what do you see?
[20:54] Zinnia Zauber: Are you seeing Pam as a cloud?
[20:54] Orange Planer: Yes, I am.
[20:54] Zinnia Zauber: I see that too.
[20:55] PowerchairDude: yes
[20:55] Par (parhelion.palou): Yes
[20:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks: not seeing "all" of her.
[20:55] CarmenLittleFawn: no
[20:55] Dancers Yao: yes
[20:55] CarmenLittleFawn: I see her
[20:55] Brena Benoir: I am seeing a missing section :(
[20:55] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[20:55] Brena Benoir: I thought it was me
[20:55] Gentle Heron: yes cloudy with a chance of meatballs maybe?
[20:55] Zinnia Zauber: awww
[20:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks: same for me Brena
[20:55] Zinnia Zauber: lol
[20:55] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): let me check what i am wearing
[20:55] Sister Abeyante shrugs and assumed it is just "SL"! LOL
[20:55] Pamala Clift: just a cloud
[20:55] Brena Benoir: rofl Gentle
[20:55] Orange Planer: I'm not worrying about a cloud avatar.
[20:55] CarmenLittleFawn: lag
[20:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I thought perhsps she was wearing a mesh
clothign item. sometimes those don't fully rez for me.
[20:55] Orange Planer: That issue will resolve itself.
[20:55] Pamala Clift: just add a new set of eyes and it resets
[20:55] Zinnia Zauber: It is okay, she is full of solid things to say!
[20:55] Gentle Heron: Right this is SL... we can move on.
[20:55] Zinnia Zauber: Yay!
[20:56] Gentle Heron: There she comes now.
[20:56] Zinnia Zauber: Now we can see you!
[20:56] Gramma Fiddlesticks: there she is!
[20:56] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): although it is scary to start taking
things off i tried :) did i get it?
[20:56] PowerchairDude: it happens
[20:56] Zinnia Zauber: Okay, I am going to have Pam share with us now.
[20:56] Zinnia Zauber: Explanation of Community Planning and Virtual
Vision 2020 purpose
[20:56] Zinnia Zauber: Please have a seat with JayR.
[20:57] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Thanks Powerchair for letting me
know I was hollow! :)
[20:57] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Virtual Vision 2020 is an attempt to
capture the community's thoughts, ideas, opinions, and goals for
[20:57] PowerchairDude: me either but I just wasn't sure so I asked
[20:57] PowerchairDude: lol
[20:57] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Modeled off the community planning
process that takes place in communities all across the world, this
virtual plan can help the Second Life community define itself, set
goals for its future, and offer a roadmap for success.
[20:57] PowerchairDude: your welcome
[20:58] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): A community plan helps people
anticipate and prepare for their collective future.
[20:58] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): More specifically it explains why
the plan is needed, identifies community goals and objectives,
compares options and sets priorities, and suggests actions and
solutions and explores how well they might meet expectations of the
[20:58] Pamala Clift: *raises hand*. Do we have LL buy in as well.. so
they don't pull the rug out from under our expectations?
[20:59] Orange Planer: The LAST thing you want is "LL buy-in."
[20:59] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I had tried to contact them
initially because I believe it would be best to have their
involvement, but I never heard from them at all
[20:59] Gentle Heron: I’d like to ask about background assumptions for
this proposed effort. I see several stated on the website:
A healthy and sustainable economy is important to the success of a community.
An interesting and vibrant culture is important to the success of a community.
Education is important to every community.
Would you please share other assumptions of Virtual Vision2020?
[20:59] Par (parhelion.palou): LL's involvement in SL is minimal
trending to non-existent
[20:59] Pamala Clift: if they change the platform.. nothing we do will matter
[20:59] Gramma Fiddlesticks can vouch for that Orange!
[20:59] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Have any of you participated in a
plan in your RL communities?
[20:59] Orange Planer: If I might interject a comment....
[21:00] Sister Abeyante: @Pam- I have (participated in RL community planning)
[21:00] Orange Planer: The problem with LL buy-in is that they change
direction, thus negating anything anybody has done that ties in with
[21:00] Brena Benoir: Employer strategic planning teams
[21:00] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): go ahead Orange and then I'll
address Gentle's question
[21:00] Gentle Heron: Yes, I've participated in planning under several
different levels of "community"
[21:00] Zinnia Zauber: I was on our city planning committee.
[21:00] Orange Planer: The result is that plans and organization get
destroyed, and I have direct experience with this.
[21:01] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): If you've participated in RL on a
committee you realize the benefit of having the "governing" authority
[21:01] Orange Planer: While LL may change the platform, they aren't
changing anything NPC does, which is all about communication.
[21:01] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): unfortunately here I am not sure LL
realizes the benefit of their involvement
[21:01] Orange Planer: LL doesn't care, Pam.
[21:01] Orange Planer: That's not what they're about.
[21:01] Pamala Clift: that is my point.. if this becomes a gaming
platform that eliminates notices.. screws up the marketplace.. locks
down sims.. what do we really hope to do?
[21:01] Dancers Yao: yes...we help with issues of discrimination,
prejudice, gang violence
[21:01] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I am not sure if it is not caring or
not getting it
[21:01] CarmenLittleFawn: nods
[21:01] Orange Planer: Not care.
[21:02] Orange Planer: Plenty of them "get it," but business interests
have always driven them towards a different goal.
[21:02] JenzZa Misfit: so true Orange , and we should not be surprised
by that really.
[21:02] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): anyway, I had thought the plan idea
would have to be abandoned until I saw what happened with SL9B and
realized the community can still plan
[21:02] Zinnia Zauber: Regardless of LL, we need to work together.
[21:02] CarmenLittleFawn: nods
[21:02] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): That could be Orange
[21:02] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): I have seen the LL culture change
over the years it is no longer sl community based but LL business
[21:02] CarmenLittleFawn: yes
[21:03] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): for example, in our city our
churches create their own community plans without our participation
and it is important for them to still do so even though the city is
not involved in it
[21:03] Ozma Malibu: today has made me optimistic. so much was
showcased, and it all has implications
[21:03] JenzZa Misfit: We have to remember that LL is a company
selling a product ( SL ) to it's customers ( the community )
[21:03] Gramma Fiddlesticks: byt don't you all see, as long as they
don't take down the gird, SL9B proved we CAN still operate as a
communities here and do what we've always done.
[21:03] Orange Planer: Pam - when the SL Mentors broke up, LL started
another program, this time independently run, to create mentor groups
that simply fulfilled a number of criteria. For the most part those
groups are not well organized, but at least three of them are, and
they plan and communicate quite well on their own.
[21:03] Gramma Fiddlesticks: *grid
[21:03] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Gramma that is what I had thought
too so figured it would be worthwhile to at least try to develop a
[21:03] Orange Planer: Your experience with SLB only verifies that.
[21:04] Gramma Fiddlesticks: People said it couldn't be done. But
thewe DID DO IT! And it was a great success!
[21:04] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Exactly Orange, if we identify goals
that the community can make happen then it will be successful
[21:04] Orange Planer nods
[21:05] Gramma Fiddlesticks: there's an old saying about that you know. =)
[21:05] Ozma Malibu: sometimes, people's voices are heard by going
outside the community, and then the powers that be say "oh - I didn't
realize that what you are doing, is also good for me." But this may be
a last chance. They may be hoping that, as the Arizona governor says,
we will all just self-deport. Leave, and then not be a bother. Well,
sometimes I am optimistic.
[21:05] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): we can also try to identify goals
that only LL can do and then it is up to them to decide if our well
being and happiness mean enough to them to take on meeting those goals
[21:05] Zinnia Zauber: We can agree that LL has their issues. I always
say, "Solutions, not excuses." Which is why we are here!
[21:05] Zinnia Zauber: Great, Pam!
[21:06] CarmenLittleFawn: mmhmm
[21:06] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Gentle - you brought up a great
question - the foundation of the plan really
[21:06] Gramma Fiddlesticks: LL is a business. WE are the "SL communities.
[21:06] Zinnia Zauber: Very good, Gramma. Yes.
[21:06] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I approached it as we would if we
were in a RL community just changing it to accommodate the virtual
[21:07] PowerchairDude: ooh pictures huh?
[21:07] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): so i focused on economy education
and culture along with land and infrastructure - all those things are
what supports a RL plan
[21:08] Pamala Clift: Well connection and notices that are so small
and you cant open them to read.. sims locking down components for the
gaming and gltiches that work oppostie the community good? ...
[21:09] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): of course, if anyone brings up
another element it should definitely go into the plan
[21:09] Sister Abeyante: @Pam- a question: can a community thrive and
be vibrant even if some or one of those components you just listed is
missing or weak?
[21:09] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Sister - it can if the weak element
is not important to that community
[21:09] Gentle Heron: So I'm noting that one underlying assumption is
that virtual communities have the same components are RL ones.
[21:10] Gentle Heron: *as RL ones
[21:10] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Pamala - those are exactly the type
of infrastructure issues to identify
[21:10] Dancers Yao: yet it helps in a RL community to be able to vote
for the people in charge....
[21:10] Pamala Clift: I love this platform.. fight to pull people
together.. and use it for education.. ..but as I am watching the
values of the community being squashed.. .. I have less hope.
[21:10] Namaara MacMoragh: You have a good point, Gentle.
[21:10] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Gentle - yes I watch RL communities
closely and have watched SL since I Joined - i am amazed by the
similarities - not sure how others have viewed this?
[21:10] Orange Planer: Pamala, are you aware that Linden Research is
embarking on a multi-year, multi-million dollar effort to speed up the
[21:11] JenzZa Misfit: for Steam ...
[21:11] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Dancers - although we cannot vote
for our "overlords" we can suggest a goal of an elected community
[21:11] DJ DyVerse (urbanskribbles): is the plan taking in
consideration other virtual worlds or just second life?
[21:12] PowerchairDude: ???? your what??
[21:12] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @DJ this plan is just looking at SL.
Although I am involved in another community plan for another grid
[21:12] Sister Abeyante: Expanding on Gentles comment- would any of us
here say that, perhaps, there are additional components of community
that are unique to SL or virtual worlds?
[21:13] Orange Planer: Sister - distance communication, presence, the
ability to create one's environment.
[21:13] Orange Planer: Virtual worlds like Second Life/ReactionGrid,
etc., all have this in common.
[21:13] Sister Abeyante nods enthusiastically in agreement... and
suggests "time shifting" and its relationship to RL geography might
also be on the list.
[21:13] Pamala Clift: I would like LL to give us notice windows that
open up.. that DONT have the time stamped on it of the notice right on
top, but just allow us to put the time of the event. Right now half
the time I can not even OPEN attachments.
[21:13] Ozma Malibu: The social cues here are different, but they have
counterparts in RL
[21:14] Namaara MacMoragh: If we operate in virtual worlds with RL
assumptions we miss the opportunities, in my opinion, to build
creative collaborations that can transform what we do in RL.
[21:14] PowerchairDude: yes and I a gree
[21:14] Namaara MacMoragh: I think we need to own our underlying
assumptions first before we can change them.
[21:14] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Pamela those are "viewer" issues.
[21:14] PowerchairDude: agree
[21:15] Pamala Clift: yes it is the viewer issues that I am concerned
about as seems they are working to close other platforms
[21:15] Namaara MacMoragh: Too often we approach what we do here the
way would in RL and thereby limit ourselves.
[21:15] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): the viewer issues are a type of infrastructure
[21:15] fate Paule: great point Nam
[21:15] Gentle Heron nods to Namaara.
[21:15] Dancers Yao: In SL I think you can explore more imaginitive
possibilities for solving problems in a global community setting...
[21:15] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Namaara that is a good point - the
counterpart to RL might be here yet if we want to enhance it or take
advantage of the virtual setting that is a goal to set
[21:15] Sister Abeyante: @ Namaara: So you are proposing that VWs have
some fundamental differences.
[21:15] PowerchairDude: I would like to see a system that doesn't
bombard you with stuff to click on the second u get there too
[21:16] PowerchairDude: better to have a help desk with stuff to click on
[21:17] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): So as we discuss the goals here
perhaps we should also consider in setting the goals and strategy for
meeting them the virtual setting and abilities we have
[21:17] Ozma Malibu: It's a culture that you come to know by interacting here.
[21:17] Namaara MacMoragh: I think the opportunity to be creative is
greater in virtual worlds along with the abiltiy to truly transend
[21:17] Zinnia Zauber: Goals! Now my signs come in! Yay!
[21:17] Pamala Clift: We all have our groups and our pet projects, we
would like to be able to keep at least what we have developed.
[21:17] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[21:18] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Zinnia has laid out four main goals
(one is open for suggestion) We would like to break into smaller
discussion groups and each group take on that goal
[21:19] Zinnia Zauber: Then we will have Presentation of breakout
group solutions and strategies.
[21:19] Gentle Heron: wait wait.... solutions? do goals have solutions?
[21:19] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes! so in each group you can
discuss that goal, explore ways to meet that goal and who might be
[21:19] PowerchairDude: sometimes
[21:20] Orange Planer: Not all goals have solutions.
[21:20] Orange Planer: Or, realistic solutions.
[21:20] Zinnia Zauber: how about aims?
[21:20] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): if we can't meet the goal that would
be a conclusion then and the goal would have to be abandoned
[21:20] Orange Planer: Not true.
[21:20] Zinnia Zauber: You can't hit the target without aiming.
[21:21] Dancers Yao: we can explore possible paths to reaching goals
[21:21] Orange Planer: One can work toward a goal without knowing what
the final solution will be.
[21:21] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes Dancer!
[21:21] Gentle Heron: Paths, yes, that I understand. Paths to a goal.
[21:21] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): and who might help us get there
[21:21] Sister Abeyante likes Dancers' image
[21:21] Zinnia Zauber: Great!
[21:21] Sister Abeyante: Goals>>>Paths>>> Help/Resources to get there
[21:21] Dancers Yao: a mythic journey for the information age!
[21:22] Orange Planer: It's like trying to figure out how to make a
nuclear fusion power reactor that runs consistently.
[21:22] JenzZa Misfit: ' rapid understanding ' of virtual worlds &
faster immersion ( in your dreams )
[21:22] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Exactly Sister!
[21:22] Gentle Heron: JenzZa, think GOAL!
[21:22] Sister Abeyante raises her hand: Where did these four come
from to start with? Maybe I missed something?
[21:22] JenzZa Misfit: goal Gentile ! goal goal ! * raising a hockey stick*
[21:23] Orange Planer notes JenZa's north american bent.
[21:23] Gramma Fiddlesticks: but isn't that exactly as it should be
Jenza?? When we were "born" (rezzed) in real life, didn't we have to
leanr to walk/talk/move etc??? Why shoul dit be any different here???
[21:23] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): We chose the goals based on the
discussions we've had so far - what we've heard from the community in
general. Zinnia left one open for suggestion or if people thought one
was not good, we can certainly change it to one we thought was better
[21:23] JenzZa Misfit: thats an unrealistic goal .. imo
[21:23] JenzZa Misfit: right Gramma .. but it took you 18 years right ?
[21:23] Sister Abeyante: @Pam- thanks for clarifying that.
[21:23] JenzZa Misfit: to learn to be a human adult ?
[21:23] CarmenLittleFawn: please state the goals and I agree with sister
[21:24] JenzZa Misfit: being an avatar is not a costume ...
[21:24] JenzZa Misfit: that you can slap on and go.
[21:24] Gramma Fiddlesticks: yes in RL it did. and in here it took
less than 8 months!
[21:24] JenzZa Misfit: OK ..8 months
[21:24] JenzZa Misfit: but it doesnt take 8 minutes .. or 8 days even
[21:24] Orange Planer: Some people less.
[21:24] Orange Planer: Depends on the person.
[21:24] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): The goals are:
[21:24] JenzZa Misfit: thats the problem
[21:24] Gramma Fiddlesticks: It took me a week to learn to walk here!
[21:25] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Improving onboarding of people -
similar to what you are discussing here - how to get people involved
faster and better
[21:25] Gramma Fiddlesticks: people seem to want to be able to do
[21:25] JenzZa Misfit: RLADLL ( real life attention doesnt last long ) syndrome
[21:25] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): The next would be helping people
find things related to their interests faster and better
[21:26] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Gramma - good point - and perhaps
the goal should accept that and find a way to manage it - just an idea
of how it could be approached
[21:26] JenzZa Misfit: .. the person at the keyboard at somepoint ..
gets it .. and becomes their avatar . .if they stick it out long
enough :) but i rarely happens quickly I find
[21:26] Dancers Yao: and encourage exploring...like in RL learning new
skills isn't always easy
[21:26] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): The 3rd goal is helping people to
build partnerships, networks, relationships - creating an
environment/tools that are conducive to meeting this goal
[21:27] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Dancer - good add on that one!
[21:27] PowerchairDude: I think it would be a good idea to make a
YouTube video about SL and how to use it .
[21:27] Orange Planer: Been done... for Viewer 1.
[21:27] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @JenzZa - that is so true - so maybe
the goal realizes it takes time and explores how to best handle that
or convey that to the user
[21:27] Gramma Fiddlesticks: agree JenzZa. Once they "get it", they
stay and become productive, contributing members of SL. So I would
think the "goal" with that is to help them "understand" what SL is all
[21:28] PowerchairDude: thats good
[21:28] JenzZa Misfit: bingo !!!
[21:28] Orange Planer: But we're up to Viewer 3 now.
[21:28] JenzZa Misfit: yahtzee !
[21:28] JenzZa Misfit: woot !
[21:28] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): and the final goal would be open for
[21:28] Zinnia Zauber: Does anyone have a suggestion?
[21:29] JenzZa Misfit: put 20 of em in a room with JenzZa .. she will
sell them on SL :) *heh*
[21:29] JenzZa Misfit: j/k !
[21:29] PowerchairDude: lol
[21:29] Ozma Malibu: is there a place for "getting the word out"
[21:29] Sister Abeyante: This is interesting. In a sense, all three
stated goals relate to improving the infrastructure (ie how to make it
happen fater/easier). None really relate to the culture aspect
directly... only as it is mediated by the infrastructure?
[21:29] Ozma Malibu: sharing what we've learned?
[21:29] Zinnia Zauber: Well, that is a good point.
[21:29] Gramma Fiddlesticks: that's the 64K L$ question I've been
asking and trying to find solutions for and helping people with for
over 5 years Pam!
[21:29] Zinnia Zauber: So I have a suggestion.
[21:30] JenzZa Misfit: Sister ! i noticed that too !
[21:30] Zinnia Zauber: We are all doing such a great job brainstorming together.
[21:30] Namaara MacMoragh: I agree with Sister Abeyante on that.
[21:30] Orange Planer: There's one key point that nobody explains to
new residents that completely blows their mind.
[21:30] Ozma Malibu: relating to other groups that aren't in SL, but
have something in common?
[21:30] Zinnia Zauber: Let stay together and cover each goal as a big team.
[21:30] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Sister - culture could be
incorporated because perhaps enhancing or building culture would help
in the goal for either onboarding or for finding interests
[21:30] JenzZa Misfit: only one, Orange? lol
[21:30] Dancers Yao: good idea Zinnia
[21:30] Zinnia Zauber: So, I think about how I try to bring people into SL.
[21:30] Orange Planer: It's that there is a conversion between Lindens
and American dollars and vice versa.
[21:30] Zinnia Zauber: I created a set of slideshows to help people.
[21:30] JenzZa Misfit: oh , agreed
[21:31] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Doing away with official "greeters" to
help and explain to brand new first time logins was a huge mistake in
my humble opinion.
[21:31] Orange Planer: That creates a connected economy that drives SL.
[21:31] Zinnia Zauber: It was part of a project that I did for ASU.
[21:31] Orange Planer: I disagree, Gramma.
[21:31] Zinnia Zauber:
[21:31] Pamala Clift: I wrote the book specifically to help with
engagement issues and the evolution of perspective.. Disassociative,
Immersive & Augmentative
[21:31] Sister Abeyante: @ Pam- I wonder... is the vibrancy of a
community (in a vw) then more dependent on infrastructure than,
perhaps, in RL?
[21:31] Brena Benoir: agreed Gramma
[21:31] Orange Planer: Except that no psychologist/psychiatrist backs
you on it, Pamala.
[21:31] Zinnia Zauber: When we talk about these goals, we need to
think of how we are actively created community through the action and
[21:31] Gramma Fiddlesticks: sorry orange. If the right people are
doing the greeting, then it works. I worked for 2 years doing exactly
that and many many of those first time people I helped are still here.
[21:32] Zinnia Zauber: Rapid Understanding of Virtual Worlds and
[21:32] CarmenLittleFawn: ty Zinnia and I agree
[21:32] Orange Planer: So did I, Gramma, but the problem is that there
cannot be enough people who do the job well enough.
[21:32] Zinnia Zauber: How do we welcome people to our RL communities?
[21:32] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Sister - i love that question
because i am very involved in infrastructure in RL - my experience
there is that our communities would completely fall apart without it
working well but no one realizes it or understands how dependent they
are on it
[21:32] Zinnia Zauber: Do we make suggestions for great waffle places?
[21:32] PowerchairDude: There is a VA Island that teaches people how
to use SL they should maybe add a video
[21:32] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Perhaps orange. perhaps. It DOES take
special patience and a lot of "people skills" to do the job.
[21:33] Ozma Malibu: one on one mentoring is what works, I think we all agree.
[21:33] Ozma Malibu: and that is also the problem.
[21:33] Orange Planer: And, most people don't want handholding - they
want to be shown an interface that makes sense right off the bat, and
so they can do things.
[21:33] Ozma Malibu: Oh, well, if that is what you want :-)
[21:33] Orange Planer: So these days, I show people how to use search,
the map, how to create landmarks, and how to change their avatar.
[21:33] Zinnia Zauber: So people need different solutions to learn to
enter this community.
[21:34] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I hear the suggestion for mentors or
one on one help from everyone but most seem to think it is not
scalable - what do you think?
[21:34] JenzZa Misfit: you need a legion of pied pipers ( happy
avatars that love SL ) who each take on smallish groups of newcomers
to EXPLAIN and POM POM the important and cool things about being an
avatar. it's not all about walking or rezzing a prim. THAT .. PLUS an
easier to use interface = growing community
[21:34] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Seems to me that many come here expecting
WOW and find instead, small town America, where they have to actually
spend time learning..
[21:34] Zinnia Zauber: Okay cheerleaders and fun buttons.
[21:34] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): is there an example of this
occurring in RL we can follow? welcome wagons? etc?
[21:34] Sister Abeyante thinks of the "each one-teach one" philosophy
of the Laubach Literacy Movement (USA)
[21:34] JenzZa Misfit: .. course you need to knock out the unsavory
aspects as well .. which will never happen.
[21:34] Zinnia Zauber: I agree, JenzZa
[21:35] CarmenLittleFawn: mentors pam, one on one works but can wear u out
[21:35] Ozma Malibu: yes, each one teach one, exactly right
[21:35] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @CArmen - that is the conclusion
that is usually reached even though most think one on one is best
[21:35] PowerchairDude: lol we bake a pie and bring it over to their
house and welcome them to the community I woudl like to have greaters
for the communities...
[21:35] Zinnia Zauber: Wouldn't that be cool if everyone fostered someone new?
[21:35] JenzZa Misfit: Gramma TRUE .. about the learning .. but .. its
like the horse and water right ? you cant make him drink .. but you
CAN salt the oats and make him thirsty , yes ? ....
[21:35] Zinnia Zauber: Pay it forward.
[21:35] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): lol Power
[21:35] Ozma Malibu: and making this scalable hasn't happened. I think
it's that the personal is so important.
[21:35] Orange Planer: OK, show of hands - how many people here use
the Viewer 3 interface?
[21:36] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I spent 2 years on the old teen grid
working with kids who had been "on their own" there for some time.
They were gratefull for the teaching.
[21:36] JenzZa Misfit: so once someone kind of GETS it and sees a
reason to LEARN .. they willingly learn
[21:36] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): That seems true JenzZa
[21:36] Zinnia Zauber: So, we know people want to learn more, right?
[21:36] PowerchairDude: yes
[21:36] CarmenLittleFawn: to much trouble viewer 3
[21:36] JenzZa Misfit: oh yes .. people are people in RL .. see ? so
if they are motivated .. they act !
[21:36] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I use Viewer 3 ONLY for mesh uploads and
to send things to the marketplace. Otherwise I revert back to Pheonix.
[21:36] Zinnia Zauber: Viewer 3 is great to teach with.
[21:37] PowerchairDude: which one is that?
[21:37] JenzZa Misfit: lol .. I am a developer and would you believe I
am on viewer 1 !! as we speak .. LOL
[21:37] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I use the most up to date viewer and
[21:37] PowerchairDude: I am using Firefox
[21:37] Orange Planer: I humbly suggest that if more people knew what
the V3 interface looked like, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
[21:37] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[21:37] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I'd belive it jenzZa!
[21:37] Zinnia Zauber: okay
[21:37] PowerchairDude: oops firestorm
[21:37] PowerchairDude: lol
[21:37] CarmenLittleFawn: Singularity here
[21:37] JenzZa Misfit: Orange .. is that good or bad ?
[21:37] Orange Planer: Firestorm has a V3 interface, but it's optional.
[21:37] JenzZa Misfit: v3?
[21:37] Gentle Heron: Viewer 3 here
[21:37] Zinnia Zauber: so, viewer smuiwer
[21:37] CarmenLittleFawn: some times firestorm
[21:38] Orange Planer: My point is this
[21:38] CarmenLittleFawn: viewer 3 only when forced
[21:38] JenzZa Misfit: oh i have the latest firestorm .. I just rarely use it
[21:38] Zinnia Zauber: The viewers will always change.
[21:38] Orange Planer: Viewer 3 works more like a Windows application;
right-click vertical menu, simplified menu structure, keeps the number
of options down to a dull roar.
[21:38] Gramma Fiddlesticks: of course they will Zinnia!
[21:38] Zinnia Zauber: They will always get better (or worse).
[21:38] Orange Planer: That's as it should be for any new resident.
[21:39] Zinnia Zauber: New folks will start with what LL gives them to download.
[21:39] Orange Planer: Put your mouse over something, you get an info button.
[21:39] Sister Abeyante: I am thinking that, as far as the
infrastructure component of a viewer (which I agree, is certainly a
fundamental infrastructure!), it needs to Either so easy to learn
ithat ts intuitive… or there is a standardized method to learn the key
[21:39] JenzZa Misfit: when I am doing RendeZvous development testing
.. old viewer 1.23 .. is the most stable of all ..especially when
testing new scripts *shrug*
[21:39] Orange Planer: Yes, but oldbies tend to stick with what they know.
[21:39] Orange Planer: And that means we're all oldbies... and most of
us are not using V3.
[21:39] Zinnia Zauber: Key Components!
[21:39] Orange Planer: So we're having the same old discussion.
[21:39] PowerchairDude: what is new with v3? r u missing out if using V1?
[21:39] CarmenLittleFawn: yes sister
[21:39] Orange Planer: Yes, PowerChair.
[21:39] Orange Planer: Development on Viewer 1 stopped a couple years ago.
[21:40] Zinnia Zauber: So, those key things we need to help make
easier to tackle.
[21:40] JenzZa Misfit: I am , Powerchair .. missing out on some
features right ? but not ones I need ... so not really
[21:40] JenzZa Misfit: web on a prim / cant see it ..etc
[21:40] Pamala Clift: I am in V3 and have taken the classes for the
new AI construct
[21:40] Orange Planer: Can't do mesh.
[21:40] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I've used several different viewers so
that I can answer questions from my students about where things are.
But my personal use is still 9and prolly will be for a long time) a
viewer 1 style viewer such as Pheonix
[21:40] JenzZa Misfit: or mesh .. * again .. do not need it for my work *
[21:40] Orange Planer: Except that lots of avatars are walking around
in mesh outfits.
[21:40] Zinnia Zauber: Great, that leads into our next goal...
[21:40] Zinnia Zauber: Engaged Discovering of Your Interests and Pursuits
[21:40] Sister Abeyante: RE: key components to learn- that canshift us
away from infrastrcture, to..."education" (another of the components
Pam indicated earlier)
[21:40] Par (parhelion.palou): and mesh saves me a lot of prims in landscaping
[21:40] JenzZa Misfit: but I do not go anywhere .. I am always on my
island working lol
[21:41] Zinnia Zauber: So how you can create and find interesting things here.
[21:41] PowerchairDude: thats good
[21:41] Zinnia Zauber: We use different viewers to do it, but the
world is the same.
[21:41] Gramma Fiddlesticks: People have to be encouraged to go 'exploring".
[21:41] CarmenLittleFawn: encouraged to explore yes
[21:41] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): LL has set up the destination guide
for this, but is there another method to develop to get people
somewhere they like fast?
[21:41] Zinnia Zauber: great how do you do that?
[21:42] Ozma Malibu: Is "engaged discovering of interests and
pursuits" motivational enough to get people past the chaos?
[21:42] Zinnia Zauber: Do you hand out Landmarks?
[21:42] Mrs. G.G. Mauer (aunty.lockjaw): Firestorm here. My alt uses
viewer 3 so I am familiar with it
[21:42] Gramma Fiddlesticks: open up the big map, scroll around, look
for a spot and teleport there!
[21:42] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): The destination guide doesn't seem
to work well for newcomers does it?
[21:42] Zinnia Zauber: Right, Ozma! Finding out their mission!
[21:42] Orange Planer: Sure it does, Pam.
[21:42] Sister Abeyante: @Zinnia- I find most new folks REALLY appreciate LMs.
[21:42] Zinnia Zauber: yes yes
[21:42] Namaara MacMoragh: I post things of interest on our community
calendar for Etopia.
[21:43] PowerchairDude: I was just in the Market Place and was reading
about Mesh lol I would hate to have a mesh suit looking at how some
viewer cant even view Mesh I would hope they get a blured avatar
[21:43] Zinnia Zauber: I like to ask people a million questions and
[21:43] Gramma Fiddlesticks: LM's work well. And it's easy to explain
how they are used. Even to the newest of the new.
[21:43] CarmenLittleFawn: LM, yes and engaged discovering
[21:43] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Orange - so the guide has been
shown to be helpful? is that then for avatars of all ages?
[21:43] Namaara MacMoragh: That allows subscribers and residents to
see things they may not find on the destination guide or SL events
[21:43] Zinnia Zauber: Do you search groups to get ideas?
[21:43] Gramma Fiddlesticks: sometimes Zinnia.
[21:43] CarmenLittleFawn: search yes
[21:43] Pamala Clift: I think people don't READ much any more.. I
think they want it in Videos
[21:43] Orange Planer: If I'm shown a list of possible destinations
that I can look at by category and is simple to navigate... and I see
new residents appearing at all the places there, then I think it's
safe to say it works.
[21:44] Sister Abeyante: @ Zinnia- I have never searched groups to get
ideas. But, I have used SEARCH function to find locations.
[21:44] Ozma Malibu: Have people start joining groups right away I think
[21:44] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Maybe there could be an interest
survey you take on their site and it builds a little tour for you? (my
kids did this for me in the makeup store today to find a fragrance!)
[21:44] Zinnia Zauber: When you arrive to a new town, how do you find
[21:44] CarmenLittleFawn: yes Orange
[21:44] Gramma Fiddlesticks: explain to people what all those green
dots are on the big map. =))
[21:44] Orange Planer: That's a harder question, Zinnia. People don't
know how to SEARCH yet.
[21:44] Sister Abeyante: When I arrive new to a town, I find a tour guide!
[21:44] CarmenLittleFawn: search functions yes
[21:44] Zinnia Zauber: Yes! I like that idea, a survey and then custom guide.
[21:44] Orange Planer: And that's the failing I see.
[21:44] Zinnia Zauber: Great, Sister!
[21:44] Pamala Clift: I wont take a survey. sigh..
[21:45] Zinnia Zauber: Well, think about Amazon giving you suggestions.
[21:45] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes Sister - or i look for the visitor center!
[21:45] Par (parhelion.palou): Nobody could ever manage to keep a tour
[21:45] Zinnia Zauber: if you like this sim, you might also like this sim.
[21:45] Zinnia Zauber: people who visited this sim, also like this and
this and this
[21:45] Par (parhelion.palou): Amazon controls its inventory ...
nothing in SL is controlled
[21:45] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): It would have to be a tour that
would automatically generate based on questions you answer
[21:45] PowerchairDude: I have found it to be ill programmed lol like
the program was not thinking aabout um the average Joe lol everthing
is like that sometimes
[21:45] Sister Abeyante envisions AI ("Bob the Monkey" of Virtual
Ability fame) who replies to a "What do you like to do?" with a couple
of LMs on that topic
[21:45] Pamala Clift: when coming into a new area, but.. I will take..
when I go into a gaming evenvironment something that defines my
character.. questions and choices typifying your presonality of your
character..smile.. like the role play games
[21:46] CarmenLittleFawn: yes Par that is a problem updates sl is moving so fast
[21:46] JenzZa Misfit: What I find about SL to be so different is
this. There really are NOT .. communities of people , neighborhoods,
towns, cities. Its all individuals who own their own land .. large or
small. Unless there is an event going on .. many /most SIMS .. you go
there .. no one there .. even my own. not like RL at all in this
[21:46] PowerchairDude: my text to speech is crashing
[21:46] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Oh please! Let's NOT do stuff like Facebook! =\
[21:46] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Zinnia that reminds me of the
suggestions you see at the end of a blog post you read
[21:46] Orange Planer: Too late, Gramma!
[21:46] PowerchairDude: fixed it
[21:46] JenzZa Misfit: it is the EVENTS and planned GATHERINGS .. like
the one I was at earlier for this event .. the dancing .. the
chatting. THAT is the community .. its not about an area .. it doesnt
matter where it occurs.
[21:46] Orange Planer: It's part of the "My Second Life" web pages!
[21:46] Gramma Fiddlesticks: as far as profile sgo orange, you are right.
[21:46] Zinnia Zauber: So, if communities that were alike worked
together then the could help build more connections.
[21:47] Gramma Fiddlesticks: we don't need anpother Facebook. Let them
do their thing and we'll do SL.
[21:47] JenzZa Misfit: Zinnia ! BINGO !
[21:47] Zinnia Zauber: wow that leads right into our next goal!
[21:47] CarmenLittleFawn: yes Zinnia
[21:47] Zinnia Zauber: Productive Building of Partnerships and
[21:47] Zinnia Zauber: Wow, how did that happen?
[21:47] JenzZa Misfit: like Stone Soup !
[21:47] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[21:48] Sister Abeyante: Back in the early days of "do it yourself web
sites" there was a "web ring"- so if you were on a site about one
topic, there was a list of other sites (web rings) on the same topic
[21:48] Ozma Malibu: Aha!
[21:48] Zinnia Zauber: web rings, yes!
[21:48] CarmenLittleFawn: nods
[21:48] Orange Planer: But it has to be kept up by an organization.
[21:48] Zinnia Zauber: how could we do something like that here?
[21:48] Orange Planer: Easily.
[21:48] PowerchairDude: oh no facebook if it is going to be like just
throwing comments at everyone and the end that would suck
[21:48] JenzZa Misfit: Zinnia ! cuz .. youre wearing your ' connect
the dots ' HUD .. right ?
[21:48] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): perhaps there is a tools someone
coudl create in SL to allow people to input their site if it is
related and then others can access it to get similar sites
[21:48] Sister Abeyante smiles at Orange the Programme...
[21:49] Orange Planer: Some group creates an organizational structure
that goes around and asks for people to be part of it.
[21:49] Zinnia Zauber: I am!
[21:49] JenzZa Misfit: OR .. PAM .. heres an idea : just a webpage of
some sort .....
[21:49] JenzZa Misfit: think outside the prim !
[21:49] Zinnia Zauber: there you go
[21:49] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes those are all great suggestions!
[21:49] JenzZa Misfit: a webpage ::: where SLURLS and pix and descriptions etc
[21:49] Par (parhelion.palou): Even if LL created the tool and
advertised on their site, the majority of people in SL would never
know about it. There's no mass media.
[21:49] Orange Planer: Then that organizational group sets up
location(s) in SL where people can go to choose different topics,
which gives them info to web pages/LMs of places.
[21:50] Orange Planer: That organization has to keep up the
information so it's accurate.
[21:50] PowerchairDude: I web ring
[21:50] JenzZa Misfit: LL is not going to create tools for us .. lol
.. trust me on this
[21:50] PowerchairDude: I would like to have a SL ring
[21:50] Zinnia Zauber: We need to do it ourself!
[21:50] Orange Planer: Or... each group that decides to participate is
asked to self-manage....
[21:50] Par (parhelion.palou): A resident created tool will only reach
a few percent of SL
[21:50] Orange Planer: And is monitored for updates, if necessary.
[21:50] JenzZa Misfit: TO THE TOWN SQUARE !! TORCHES EVERYONE !
[21:50] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[21:50] Zinnia Zauber: lol
[21:51] Sister Abeyante: @ Par- unless it is so good it "goes viral" LOL
[21:51] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): that was so funny i lost the thought i had lol
[21:51] Zinnia Zauber: Well, so do you guys believe that part of
planning a community is to lead by example?
[21:51] Gentle Heron: I can say that updating a list is really really
hard work. Virtual Ability maintains the Path of Support-- a virtual
visual demonstration of the peer support systems available in SL. Eme
and her crew have identified over 120 of them... but figuring out
which ones are really valid, accurate, active... that's so hard!
[21:51] CarmenLittleFawn: yes
[21:51] Par (parhelion.palou): There's no way for anything to go viral
in SL ... it's a group of thousands of independent groups who don't
know other groups exist.
[21:52] Gramma Fiddlesticks: You might just be surprised at how
information like that can spread though the various groups Par. Just
look at what happened this time last year when the news went around
abouthe mass ejection of members of the Builders Brewery group.
[21:52] JenzZa Misfit: exactly Parhelion
[21:52] Par (parhelion.palou): Sorry, never heard of that
[21:52] Zinnia Zauber: So, what are the things we can do. On our own
to start building these connections.
[21:52] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Its almost like we need a type of
chamber of commerce
[21:52] Ozma Malibu: Are you organizing the structure? Are you saying
it's us? Because if it's people, then things don't have to be so
[21:52] Zinnia Zauber: A chamber of awesomeness!
[21:52] Orange Planer: Or....
[21:52] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[21:52] Pamala Clift: yeah I volunteered to be ejected first. and that
crashed the system..lol
[21:52] Lucinda Lavender: :))
[21:53] CarmenLittleFawn: yes like the chamber idea Pam
[21:53] Zinnia Zauber: So, does this seem overwhelming?
[21:53] Orange Planer: We set up a system that people modify
themselves, and we DON'T monitor it.
[21:53] Gramma Fiddlesticks: 17,000 people were ejcted from the BB
group by a membership bot script that went awry. within a week
thousands of those people had rejoined the group becuase of other
groups letting their members know the problem happened.
[21:53] Orange Planer: Let there be dead links.
[21:53] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): is that a group then that could be
elected by the grid? or is that too "organized" for what we want?
[21:53] JayR Cela: @ everyone listening / untill the bone headed folks
at LL embrace Hper-Grid and Open Sim / all this talk is a waste of
time / with in a few years SL will be just like AOL / *GONE Like The
WInd * / *POOF!!* :(
[21:53] Zinnia Zauber: that is great Gramma!
[21:53] PowerchairDude: a library with a SL ring would be nice
[21:53] Ozma Malibu: It's not overwhelming if we remember the "each
one teach one" idea
[21:53] JenzZa Misfit: what does : by the grid mean ?
[21:53] JenzZa Misfit: you mean ALL of SL ?
[21:53] JenzZa Misfit: that cant be done. period.
[21:54] Zinnia Zauber: great Ozma
[21:54] Orange Planer: JayR - you doomsayers have been saying that for years.
[21:54] Par (parhelion.palou): Copyright problems keep SL away from
[21:54] Orange Planer: And there are OTHER issues with a hypergrid -
like who owns your inventory?
[21:54] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @JenzZa - it could be by whoever
wants to vote in SL
[21:54] JenzZa Misfit: SL is heading for the Steam portal ... think it
will be around for a long ... LONG time :)
[21:54] Gramma Fiddlesticks: copyright problems are an issue with all
the girds from what I can see Par. =\
[21:55] Par (parhelion.palou): That's right ... no agreed way to
transfer between them while respecting copyright
[21:55] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @JayR whatever we do here is a
learning experience that can translate to any other virtual setting
[21:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks: *grids
[21:55] Par (parhelion.palou): LL is big enough to be sued ... the
others aren't ... yet
[21:55] JenzZa Misfit: and how would you get that word out there Pam ?
there is no way to inform all of SL unless you want to pay 1500 US for
a 1 time log in screen msg by LL
[21:55] Ozma Malibu: An election? Interesting idea.
[21:55] Zinnia Zauber: Do you believe that one person can make a difference?
[21:55] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I do Zinnia.
[21:56] Par (parhelion.palou): To a community, yes
[21:56] PowerchairDude: Did links would be just reported by the users
which will sent to the person in charge of the group they are in
[21:56] Zinnia Zauber: Yay!
[21:56] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): PR has come up a few times - is that
another goal to look at? how can we establish a communication
structure that reaches the most people in SL?
[21:56] Orange Planer: time for bed. Tomorrow's another day.
[21:56] PowerchairDude: I would also like to see a system that tells u
the last day that link was used
[21:56] Zinnia Zauber: Take care, Orange.
[21:56] Gramma Fiddlesticks: G'night orange. =)
[21:56] CarmenLittleFawn: nite orange
[21:56] Ozma Malibu: clearly one person can make a difference
especially when other people take what the first person has taught,
change it perhaps, send it on
[21:56] Zinnia Zauber: Excellent Ozma!
[21:57] Sister Abeyante: Is there a HUD of some sort that one can
easily load LMs into? Because, if so, we could get that into the SL
Market place (free) and disseminate it person to person, and then
invite people and groups to "load" it with a few themed LMS that ar
[21:57] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): @Good suggestion Sister
[21:57] Pamala Clift: I as well must say good night all.. these
graveyard shifts are zapping any clear thoughts I could contribute
[21:57] Sister Abeyante: Replicating the "empty" hud would allow folks
to create their own selections, and have their, or their groups name
[21:57] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Ozma "Paying Forward" does work. But it's
a 'skill" that has to be taught and encouraged to others.
[21:57] CarmenLittleFawn: yes very good idea
[21:57] PowerchairDude: yes
[21:57] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes, it is late here too! I think we
will be wrapping up for tonight
[21:57] Zinnia Zauber: These are amazing ideas!
[21:58] CarmenLittleFawn: night Pamala
[21:58] PowerchairDude: VA has a HUD
[21:58] Zinnia Zauber: We have so much to share!
[21:58] Gentle Heron: Lots of HUDs like that... art museums have one,
hunts have them.....
[21:58] Ozma Malibu: In this case we'd be paying forward the concept
of the people powered infrastructure
[21:58] Sister Abeyante: Ok... so the structure or mechanism is out there.
[21:58] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Indeed!
[21:58] Zinnia Zauber: We have to be the leaders of what can be.
[21:58] Mrs. G.G. Mauer (aunty.lockjaw): wants a power shopping hud
[21:58] CarmenLittleFawn: mmhmm
[21:58] Gentle Heron: Gramma, maybe that's the solution to changing
ALL of our communities, RL and SL... teach "paying it forward" as a
[21:58] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Make sure to connect with each other
and keep working on community! And if you want to follow the plan's
progress it will be on the website http://www.virtualvision2020.com -
thanks for your input and ideas and time!
[21:58] Zinnia Zauber: Yes, I think so.
[21:58] Sister Abeyante: It would then be a "people task" to make the
huds themed and fun to distribute. "Here's your collection of my
favorite places to fly airplanes!"
[21:59] Gramma Fiddlesticks: I whole heartedly agree Gentle. But I
also know it doens't happen overnight. It has to be said again and
again and again.
[21:59] Zinnia Zauber: It encourages responsibility and respect when
you Pay it Forward.
[21:59] Gramma Fiddlesticks: yes Zinnia!
[21:59] Dancers Yao: @pam...yes I think that is a good goal...!
[22:00] Ozma Malibu: I love it the themed huds, but I think we need to
start with the simplest idea possible. I don't know what that idea
would be though.
[22:00] Zinnia Zauber: Yes! Dancers! Yes!
[22:00] CarmenLittleFawn: yes
[22:00] Gramma Fiddlesticks: and you all may think I'm naive, but the
good old "Golden Rule" also still works!
[22:00] Zinnia Zauber: right
[22:00] CarmenLittleFawn: yes it does
[22:00] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): It is important to support your
fellow man - one kind word or deed can sometimes make a huge
difference to someone
[22:01] Zinnia Zauber: yes!
[22:01] Gramma Fiddlesticks: smile to a stranger and see!
[22:01] Dancers Yao: agree...
[22:01] JenzZa Misfit: just sayin ... I knew a group that tried that
HUD idea once .. the pass it on .. add to it .. pass it on idea .. it
ended up loaded with adult content LMs and passed around for 2 years
and all pointed back at the original creators of the idea
[22:01] JayR Cela: Untill LL can actually fit more that 40 or so
avatars conferrable y onto a grid at one time / increase prim count /
and finally fix cross border sim crossings it's like whipping a
[22:01] Zinnia Zauber: How can we end this workshop with a great set
of ideas to help push forward on our goals?
[22:01] Ozma Malibu: how could the idea of paying it forward be linked
to the concept of an infrastructure made up of likeminded groups?
[22:01] Gramma Fiddlesticks: =\ that's sad JenzZa, =\
[22:02] Par (parhelion.palou): most of SL rarely sees 5 people on a
region at once
[22:02] JenzZa Misfit: just be careful what you do .. this is SL ..
not RL .. and it is huge and full of ' everyone '
[22:02] Ozma Malibu: How can we inform people in SL of what we want to do?
[22:02] Zinnia Zauber: Some of the things we have discussed take
infrastructure and it sounds like communication is a big part of it.
[22:03] PowerchairDude: I's there a LM Hud that can only be approved
of by these orgs, and they can receive ideas and add those later
[22:03] Ozma Malibu: Communication is the virtual infrastructure
[22:03] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): I think it could be helpful if
people went back to their communities and discussed if they thought a
centralized group would be helpful
[22:03] Par (parhelion.palou): We can't inform everyone in SL of
something. Nobody can.
[22:03] Zinnia Zauber: Wonderful!
[22:03] Ozma Malibu: We can't inform everyone, but some ways of
letting people know may work better than others.
[22:03] PowerchairDude: soo true
[22:03] Zinnia Zauber: We need to spread the word and turn it into action!
[22:03] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): And if people could explore the idea
of a central method of communication that could reach out to most of
[22:04] Gramma Fiddlesticks: we can't in one day par. But over time we
can reach a huge percentage of them.
[22:04] Zinnia Zauber: yes, I think that is worth us all looking for.
[22:04] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): we could all pledge to write one
blog post exploring one of the ideas discussed here today
[22:04] Zinnia Zauber: Great idea!
[22:04] Ozma Malibu: Pam seriously that is a good idea. Because we
would all reach different communities.
[22:04] PowerchairDude: will I would like a joint community HUD the end for now
[22:04] Gramma Fiddlesticks: will there be a transcript of this
meeting posted soemwhere??
[22:05] Zinnia Zauber: Right! We need to find ways to unite.
[22:05] Gentle Heron: That's the start, Gramma!
[22:05] Zinnia Zauber: Yes, I will post it on the Nonprofit Commons blog
[22:05] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): yes and we would get even more input
from comments on the posts
[22:05] Ozma Malibu: I think we need to think of solutions that we can
arrange, by ourselves.
[22:05] Zinnia Zauber: nonprofitcommons.org
[22:05] JenzZa Misfit: you would be better served I think to have your
' go to for info ' place be outside of SL .. a website .. and promote
THAT in SL ... that is what is familiar to all people who want to be
avatars .. getting info on the very web itself.
[22:05] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Thanks. I don't blog myself, but I know
folks who do and if I can point them to a place to read, it will help
[22:06] Zinnia Zauber: wonderful!
[22:06] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Good idea Gramma
[22:06] Zinnia Zauber: I am so pleased you all joined us today!
[22:06] Ozma Malibu: I don't blog either, but I have been thinking
"blog post" all night.
[22:06] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes thanks to everyone!
[22:06] Zinnia Zauber: I want to thank Pam for sharing her knowhow
about community planning!
[22:06] Dancers Yao: a central communication is important....like
today in LA the traditional news on TV had everyone watching for the
Endeavor space shuttle to land...so maybe we can use the virtual TV on
the Web somehow?
[22:06] Zinnia Zauber: And, I want to thank YOU!
[22:06] CarmenLittleFawn: yes :-)
[22:06] Ozma Malibu: So what is the next step?
[22:06] Zinnia Zauber: You all have wonderful ideas!
[22:07] Namaara MacMoragh: thank you ... and everyone for your great
input in the conversation
[22:07] Zinnia Zauber: You can make the difference in the world.
[22:07] Dancers Yao: yes thank you Pam and Zinnia
[22:07] Zinnia Zauber: Let's agree to keep making plans to meet again
and share how we can move forward.
[22:07] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Ozma - myself and others working on
the plan will continue to meet with communities in SL.
[22:07] Ozma Malibu: yes thank you
[22:07] Zinnia Zauber: In the meantime, Pay it Forward!
[22:07] JenzZa Misfit: see ? and here in SL .. we CAN all talk at once
! and we DID ! and it works :) you cant do that in RL .. why ? cuz
youre not typing in RL .. youre talking :)
[22:07] Zinnia Zauber: lol
[22:07] PowerchairDude: it was cool
[22:07] Gramma Fiddlesticks: something we all should keep in mind,
"social change" (and I think that is what we are talking about here)
takes time. It won't happen in a day. But we have to begin somewhere
or it will never happen.
[22:07] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Eventually we will take what we have
heard and the input on the surveys online and develop a plan then put
it out for everyone's reveiw
[22:08] Zinnia Zauber: Please remember that you are all welcome to all
our Nonprofit Commons Meetings!
[22:08] CarmenLittleFawn: ty Zinnia
[22:08] Zinnia Zauber: Please get the gift on top of the big cupcake
to get info about the Nonprofit Commons.
[22:08] Zinnia Zauber: Yes, that would be great Pam!
[22:08] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): If anyone wants to work on the plan
just IM me - we can use volunteers for meetings or working on the
[22:09] JenzZa Misfit: I remember ... 6 years ago at a Linden Town
Hall meeting .. I spoke up and said : someday .. educators and non
profs and who knows what all .. will be in SL .. and figure out how to
use it for the future and for the good ! and all the porn dorks
laughed at me and called me nuts.
[22:09] JenzZa Misfit: *heh*
[22:09] JenzZa Misfit: whos nutty now ?
[22:09] Zinnia Zauber: Please remember to update your profiles, help
people, and make new friends to connect the dots!
[22:09] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): :)
[22:09] Gramma Fiddlesticks: Yes JenzZa! =))
[22:09] Par (parhelion.palou): At least there are some nonprofits and
educational groups left
[22:09] Gramma Fiddlesticks: thanks for having this meeting Zinnia and
pam. And thanks for allowing me to prattle on. =)
[22:09] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you all for joining us! And, like I
always say... you can't have community without UNITY!
[22:09] Gentle Heron: And new ones coming in, Par!
[22:10] JenzZa Misfit: ( p.s. all those porn dorks bought my
RendeZvous eventually so they could walk and hold hands * double heh*)
[22:10] Zinnia Zauber: I love the prattle!
[22:10] Gramma Fiddlesticks: goodnight all! It's 1am for me!
[22:10] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you!
[22:10] CarmenLittleFawn: night :-)
[22:10] Zinnia Zauber: Good night and please take care!
[22:11] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you for being part of this!
[22:11] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Good night everyone! :)
[22:11] Zinnia Zauber: Some great ideas for our goals have been delivered!
[22:11] JenzZa Misfit: thanks everyone .. this was so interesting .. i
hope you all figure it out :)
[22:11] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you Pam!
[22:11] CarmenLittleFawn: night pam
[22:11] Brena Benoir: Good night to all leaving
[22:11] Zinnia Zauber: You will be part of it JenzZa!
[22:11] CarmenLittleFawn: Night everybody, tc :-)
[22:11] Brena Benoir: thanks for joining us!
[22:11] JenzZa Misfit: p.s you all rock for your volunteerism etc :) I
am a ruthless capitalist entrepeneur :)
[22:11] JenzZa Misfit: I will ? lol
[22:12] Gentle Heron: Thanks Pam and Zinnia for organizing this. And
thanks to everyone who participated and thought about these important
[22:12] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): lol
[22:12] Dancers Yao: good night...have good dreams
[22:12] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Thanks so much Zinnia!
[22:12] Zinnia Zauber: Thank you Gentle! You know how to support
community and love all the ideas!
[22:12] Sister Abeyante: Excellent discussion, indeed.
[22:13] Zinnia Zauber: Yes!
[22:13] Zinnia Zauber: I love it!
[22:13] Zinnia Zauber: So many super ideas and from awesome folks!
[22:14] Pam Broviak (pam.renoir): Yes thanks Gentle so much for
participating - you have an awesome community!
- End of Line -